No spark Replaced coil.

[zleader]

First off let me tell you this problem is gettin a little old. I am at a lost right now and will share you my test results and what I have done. Maybe someone can steer me in the right direction. The main problem car was not starting, Cranking fine, no spark, can smell fuel with plugs removed.

Removed spark plugs. They were in poor shape so replaced.
Checked for spark, nothing pressent, fuel smell heavy, determined fuel delivery is working. As new plugs are coated in fuel.
measured resistance of the wires. all passeed except cylinder 1, 1.4 mega ohms. So i replaced the set
At the coil check primary windings with my meter. .5 of a ohm. each 1and4 and 2and3 coil
At coil checked secondary 2 and 3 10.5 kohms and 1 and 4 1.5 mega ohms (COIL replaced with wrecher unit)
Checked for power to the coil centre pin to either outside pin 12.3volts with key on


Car still not producing a spark. Scared coil from junk yard n/g removed from car and put in friends Elantra of the same year, car starts. Put his coil in mine still not starting. Test proves wreaker unit is okay to use. Swap units back.

I have been doing some reading, my educated guess right now are the cam or crank sensor.

Questions
Is there a way of testing the cam/crank sensor with out a data logger? for example a resistance check?
Can a faulty coil take out the cam/crank sensors?
Do you need both cam and crank sensors fault free for the car to make a spark?
I traced back the green and white wire on a diagram, these are ground wires to the ECM? The Bown is the 12v+ to the coil? Could my ECM be toast?

On a secondary question will a crank sensor or cam sensor issue produce multi cyclinder codes for missfire? p0300. p0301, p0304?

This a double post from another site, I was recommended by a user to post here because the Admin is a very helpfull member.
Thanks in advance

[Admin1]

First off let me tell you this problem is gettin a little old. I am at a lost right now and will share you my test results and what I have done. Maybe someone can steer me in the right direction. The main problem car was not starting, Cranking fine, no spark, can smell fuel with plugs removed.

Removed spark plugs. They were in poor shape so replaced.
Checked for spark, nothing pressent, fuel smell heavy, determined fuel delivery is working. As new plugs are coated in fuel.
measured resistance of the wires. all passeed except cylinder 1, 1.4 mega ohms. So i replaced the set
At the coil check primary windings with my meter. .5 of a ohm. each 1and4 and 2and3 coil
At coil checked secondary 2 and 3 10.5 kohms and 1 and 4 1.5 mega ohms (COIL replaced with wrecher unit)
Checked for power to the coil centre pin to either outside pin 12.3volts with key on


Car still not producing a spark. Scared coil from junk yard n/g removed from car and put in friends Elantra of the same year, car starts. Put his coil in mine still not starting. Test proves wreaker unit is okay to use. Swap units back.

I have been doing some reading, my educated guess right now are the cam or crank sensor.

Questions
Is there a way of testing the cam/crank sensor with out a data logger? for example a resistance check?
Can a faulty coil take out the cam/crank sensors?
Do you need both cam and crank sensors fault free for the car to make a spark?
I traced back the green and white wire on a diagram, these are ground wires to the ECM? The Bown is the 12v+ to the coil? Could my ECM be toast?

On a secondary question will a crank sensor or cam sensor issue produce multi cyclinder codes for missfire? p0300. p0301, p0304?

This a double post from another site, I was recommended by a user to post here because the Admin is a very helpfull member.
Thanks in advance
:welcome::welcome:

Welcome here! From your post I do think you are in right thinking! It does sound like you have a problem with a crank sensor, Only good way to check it is to use a Lab Scope. Make sure your T-belt is not broken! Also
when you turn your key on you do see a Service Engine light on, If you see your light that does mean your PCM is up(doesnt mean its good). But I do feel you have a crank sensor issue. We do see crank sensors fail on these cars!

Admin1

[zleader]

Thanks for the info. The Tbelt is not broken. I did take the cranks sensor out and put it in the elantra. The Elantra started right up.
Here a couple more questions for you.

1) If the car is missing the crank sensor signal with it try and start on the Cam on sensor. By trade I a heavy equipement mechanic and I know on some of the diesels I work on it will start on the cam with more turns untill it finds feedback on the starting cylinder.
2) I guess it is possible to have a harness break to the sensor. Do you know of any trouble spots for harness breaks or tension. I remember back the Hyundia scoupe had issues with wire breaks for the cooling fans.
3) The three wires to the crank sensor would be a + and - and A/C singnal.

Thanks again for your info

[zleader]

I did some more checks this morning.

I took the connector off the cam and crank sensors. I verified the black wire is the ground circuit. Verified with my meter there is an established ground at both pin locations.

If I crank the engine with my meter to ground should I see the + voltage on either the yellow wire or Brown wire. If so what is the ecms reference voltage, I know my my dealing with Volvo VED12s it uses a 4.5v.

With the key on the position I get a 1.6 volts at the yellow wire.

My issues with just replacing the crank sensor is I borrowed one from the Elantra. It did not seem to start. Having said that no i question if I have the sensor installed properly. I can not get the sensor back to try as the elantra was at my house yesterday, friend lives about 100km way. No sure I am up dropping $$ for a new sensor with narrowing it down. On the flips side I need the car to work. I hate to replace the sensor and have the car not start. The would really irrate me. Worst off sucking it up and towing it to the dealer would send me over the deep end.

[Admin1]

When you replace the crank sensor make real sure the surface were the sensor goes in the block is not rusty, I have seen before were people replace the crank sensor an they think it is in right an turns out it is not in the block all the way. Also there is a Oring in the sensor make sure its not stuck in the block, If it is you will install crank sensor with two orings an that will also not allow the sensor to go in all the way!

But from what you are saying you got all your powers an grounds! What controls the spark is the PCM an what input for it to tell it to spark is the crank sensor. Not very often does PCM ever go bad. I have never seen one go bad. But I will say I have seem many crank sensor go bad! Its does really sound like its a crank sensor. What you really need is a scantool to see in the data list if you have engine RPM when cranking. But most people dont have a scantool :frusty:

Again recheck your sensor surface on the block an oring!

Now this is from the book maybe this may help you as well!


TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS


If unexpected misses are felt during driving or the engine stalls suddenly, shake the crankshaft position sensor harness. If this causes the engine to stall, check for poor contact at the sensor connector.
If the tachometer reads 0 rpm when the engine is cranked, check for faulty crankshaft position sensor or ignition system problems.
If the tachometer reads 0 rpm when the engine is cranked and it does not start, ignition coil, power TR, or an ECM defect can be considered.
Engine can be stalled when the crankshaft position sensor cable is close to the high voltage cable due to the electronic noise caused by the high voltage induced.

Disconnect the crankshaft position sensor connector.
Measure the resistance between terminal 2 and 3. Standard value : 0.486 - 0.594 kohm at 20 °C (68 °F)
If the resistance deviates far from the standard value, replace the sensor. Standard value Clearance between the crankshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor wheel : 0.5 - 1.5 mm (0.020 - 0.059 in.) Tightening torque Crankshaft position sensor : 4 - 6 Nm (40 - 60 kg.cm, 2.9 - 4.3 lb.ft)
Admin1

[zleader]

Thanks I will give that a try. I have ordered a new sensor this morning. I have to wait to 1pm to organzie a ride to the parts shop. In the mean time I will clean the mounting area on the block and check the resistance of the old sensor.

Checked the pins 2 and 3, did not even register on the meter. This sensor is dead.

Will update this later with my finds.

[Admin1]

Be sure to make sure that block is very clean of rust!!

Admin1

[zleader]

Thanks for your help. The car is back up and running. Crank sensor it was

[Admin1]

Awsome!!! Good to hear your back up! Let us know in the future if you ever need help again!

Admin1