'03 Santa Fe Jerks At Highway Speeds

[machav63]

I'm new to this forum, but found some really good posts here. I thought I'd give it a try.

We have an '03 Santa Fe (2.4L). We are the original owners.

About 18 months ago, one of our Ignition Coils cracked and caused a misfire when then engine was under load. I replaced the coil, wires, and plugs myself at that time.

Since that time, we have experienced intermittent engine jerking while at highway speeds. There does not seem to be any pattern, and it does not happen every time we drive it.

I took it to the dealer who diagnosed a valve cover leak. They replaced the gasket, one ignition coil, wires and plugs. The problem still happened intermittently after that. I brought it back to the dealer, who diagnosed a valve guide/seat leak. Oil is getting into the cylinder and fouling the plug they say.

I could not afford the fix (and was very dissatisfied by the service I received) so the dealer recommended to change the plugs every 3 - 5K miles to get me through. I was told this on 03/31/09 (125695 miles). I replaced the plugs, wires, and BOTH coils again at that time.

Last week @ 130K miles the engine jerked again. I replaced all four plugs again Sunday morning, but the ones that I pulled were NOT look oil fouled. I showed them to a mechanic friend and the guy at the auto parts store. Both agreed that the spark plugs looked almost new. Sunday evening, while driving on the freeway, the car jerked again!

Since this happened again SO soon after changing the plugs, I really have a hard time believing the valve guide diagnosis.

Do any of you have any suggestions?

Some possibilities I have seen/heard:

* Crank position sensor or camshaft sensor (This was replaced at 78K miles along with the all of the belts)
* Clogged fuel filter
* Bad O2 sensor
* Vacuum leak from the hose that is between the throttle body and the engine casing
* The dealer's valve seat suggestion


I appreciate anything you can come up with.

[Admin1]

I'm new to this forum, but found some really good posts here. I thought I'd give it a try.

We have an '03 Santa Fe (2.4L). We are the original owners.

About 18 months ago, one of our Ignition Coils cracked and caused a misfire when then engine was under load. I replaced the coil, wires, and plugs myself at that time.

Since that time, we have experienced intermittent engine jerking while at highway speeds. There does not seem to be any pattern, and it does not happen every time we drive it.

I took it to the dealer who diagnosed a valve cover leak. They replaced the gasket, one ignition coil, wires and plugs. The problem still happened intermittently after that. I brought it back to the dealer, who diagnosed a valve guide/seat leak. Oil is getting into the cylinder and fouling the plug they say.

I could not afford the fix (and was very dissatisfied by the service I received) so the dealer recommended to change the plugs every 3 - 5K miles to get me through. I was told this on 03/31/09 (125695 miles). I replaced the plugs, wires, and BOTH coils again at that time.

Last week @ 130K miles the engine jerked again. I replaced all four plugs again Sunday morning, but the ones that I pulled were NOT look oil fouled. I showed them to a mechanic friend and the guy at the auto parts store. Both agreed that the spark plugs looked almost new. Sunday evening, while driving on the freeway, the car jerked again!

Since this happened again SO soon after changing the plugs, I really have a hard time believing the valve guide diagnosis.

Do any of you have any suggestions?

Some possibilities I have seen/heard:

* Crank position sensor or camshaft sensor (This was replaced at 78K miles along with the all of the belts)
* Clogged fuel filter
* Bad O2 sensor
* Vacuum leak from the hose that is between the throttle body and the engine casing
* The dealer's valve seat suggestion


I appreciate anything you can come up with.

Well Is does sound like you have had some poor experience at the dealer!
I have never seen a 2.4L have a valve guide leak! I dont believe that is your problem. Does your Service Engine light come on? There are many things that would cause your car to jerking. Crank sensor will cause it to do this. Does it feel like a transmission jerking or a engine missfire? I have seen the Input an Output Speed Sensors cause this concern as well. But they will cause car to fall in fail safe an not shift. You may have to find a better dealer to take it too an have the search codes, Or look at data list. If your Service light is on you can take it to your local parts store like Auto Zone, an they will run codes for free! Even if the light is not on it can still have codes in the computer! I hope maybe some I could help you!

[machav63]

Yes, the writer pulled the "You must not know anything about internal combustion engines" line on my wife. Needless to say, we were not too happy.

The Check Engine Light does NOT come on with the jerk. I do not notice a drop in RPMs either. I can't tell if it is the Engine or Tranny. However, it doesn't feel the same as the misfires we got when the ignition coil cracked. That time we definitely lost power, and had to drive home in 2nd or 3rd gear to keep the revs up.

It typically happens while driving at a constant speed, between 65 - 75. (This may be because we try not to drive much faster than 75 on the freeway.) The cruise control can be on or off, it doesn't matter.

I may go to AAMCO, Auto Zone, or Pepboys and have them run a diagnostic to see if they find anything.

I am hesitant to replace any parts until I have a better idea of what is going on.

Thanks for the help.

[Admin1]

Well I wouldn't replace any parts until you do find out what's going on. Drivabilty problems can be hard to find sometimes an can be very frustrating! In times like this it's nice to have a good shop that you can trust! It might be worth to find another dealer to run a dia on your truck.

[machav63]

Aamco has diagnosed a cracked exhaust manifold, and a bad "pre-cat"

They said that this could be causing the problem that I am experiencing. They can't guarantee, but they must fix this to rule it out as a possiblilty.

[Admin1]

Aamco has diagnosed a cracked exhaust manifold, and a bad "pre-cat"

They said that this could be causing the problem that I am experiencing. They can't guarantee, but they must fix this to rule it out as a possiblilty.


Well Im trying to say there wrong....but if your exaust manifold is crack you do need that fixed! but I dont think this is causing your issue. I have only seen a few crack. If your precat was plugged up I think you would have more than the issue you have now. If it was just "bad" you would have a Service Engine Soon Light with a code P0420. but there 100% right though if its cracked you should fix it. But I honesty have to say I dont thik this is your issue. Sorry to give you bad news :sad: This may sound bad, but I think it will get worse before it gets better, That way you have a better dia on it! intermittent drivablity problems can be the worst ones to dia, an the ones that cost customers the most!

[machav63]

Well Im trying to say there wrong....but if your exaust manifold is crack you do need that fixed! but I dont think this is causing your issue. I have only seen a few crack. If your precat was plugged up I think you would have more than the issue you have now. If it was just "bad" you would have a Service Engine Soon Light with a code P0420. but there 100% right though if its cracked you should fix it. But I honesty have to say I dont thik this is your issue. Sorry to give you bad news :sad: This may sound bad, but I think it will get worse before it gets better, That way you have a better dia on it! intermittent drivablity problems can be the worst ones to dia, an the ones that cost customers the most!

You are absolutely right. My wife just called from the freeway & it happened again. I am afraid this is going to start costing a lot (we just dropped $1500).

Honestly, she is ready to buy a new car.

[machav63]

Just got another call from the wife. It is jerking even harder, and now the check engine light is on. I will take it back tomorrow and say they did not diagnose the problem correctly.

[HyundaiCleaner]

hello, see if you can take the tech for a ride or get them to drive it, get the vehicle to act up, and show them exactly what the issue is and what jerking your talking about. it will be kind of hard to deny the issue if they see what the problem is

[machav63]

hello, see if you can take the tech for a ride or get them to drive it, get the vehicle to act up, and show them exactly what the issue is and what jerking your talking about. it will be kind of hard to deny the issue if they see what the problem is

That is my plan for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it is VERY intermittent. My wife drove 30 minutes to play soccer tonight. It happened off-and-on on the drive out, but didn't happen on the drive back. Very frustrating!

[HyundaiWifey]

That is my plan for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it is VERY intermittent. My wife drove 30 minutes to play soccer tonight. It happened off-and-on on the drive out, but didn't happen on the drive back. Very frustrating!


Why don’t you ask your Hyundai Dealership to keep your vehicle for a few days to take periodic test drives as Admin1 is correct that a drive complaint is the hardest to duplicate. :car: Maybe in that time they would be able to locate the issue.

[machav63]

Here are the latest details about our car:
1. Spark plugs, oil & filter, and air filter were changed 7 days ago.
2. Picked the car up from Aamco Wednesday afternoon. Exhaust Manifold & precat were replaced. Mechanic test drove the car on the freeway and was not able to duplicate the problem. Said he was able to notice an improvement in engine response over what it was before the repair. The mechanic said the O2 sensor was a little dirty, but still looked to be in good working order.
3. Wife drove the car ~ 30 miles to play soccer later that night, and felt the car jerk during the drive. The Check Engine Light flickered independently of the engine jerks. (This is the first time we have seen the CEL come one while we’ve been dealing with this problem).
4. Wife drove the car home and did NOT feel the jerk or see any CEL.
5. I took the car back to Aamco Thursday morning, the CEL was NOT on. They checked it for codes, Nothing. They checked it for pre-codes, nothing. They test drove the car on the freeway (at cruisine speed, up a grade, and passing cars) with the code reader hooked up, Nothing. I took the car back, drove it down the freeway myself for ~16 miles, Nothing.
6. Thursday afternoon, my wife drove the car ~22 miles to a park, Nothing. A few hours later, she drove the car the car home. After ~7 miles the car started to jerk: about 12 jerks over a 3 – 4 minute period. My wife was trying to pay attention for a CEL and noticed the tach drops about 500 RPM with every jerk. This is the first time we’ve noticed a drop in revs, but it may be the first time we’ve really tried to watch it. She said these jerks felt to be the same as before. No CEL came on though.
7. We swap cars and I take it to Aamco (WITHOUT shutting off the engine) and ask them to scan for any pre-codes. Nothing is in the computer.

They offered to keep the car and drive it periodically, but they don’t have the man power to put in a lot of driving time. And I unfortunately don’t have an extra car available to me. This is very frustrating. Aamco advised they will not charge me any additional diagnostic time, but can’t try to track it down until they have a code to follow.

Any new thoughts? I will go through and re-check spark plug wire connections. I’ll even try to re-connect the battery.

If it is the CPS, how would I test that?

Thanks for all the help so far!
Mike

[Admin1]

Here are the latest details about our car:
1. Spark plugs, oil & filter, and air filter were changed 7 days ago.
2. Picked the car up from Aamco Wednesday afternoon. Exhaust Manifold & precat were replaced. Mechanic test drove the car on the freeway and was not able to duplicate the problem. Said he was able to notice an improvement in engine response over what it was before the repair. The mechanic said the O2 sensor was a little dirty, but still looked to be in good working order.
3. Wife drove the car ~ 30 miles to play soccer later that night, and felt the car jerk during the drive. The Check Engine Light flickered independently of the engine jerks. (This is the first time we have seen the CEL come one while we’ve been dealing with this problem).
4. Wife drove the car home and did NOT feel the jerk or see any CEL.
5. I took the car back to Aamco Thursday morning, the CEL was NOT on. They checked it for codes, Nothing. They checked it for pre-codes, nothing. They test drove the car on the freeway (at cruisine speed, up a grade, and passing cars) with the code reader hooked up, Nothing. I took the car back, drove it down the freeway myself for ~16 miles, Nothing.
6. Thursday afternoon, my wife drove the car ~22 miles to a park, Nothing. A few hours later, she drove the car the car home. After ~7 miles the car started to jerk: about 12 jerks over a 3 – 4 minute period. My wife was trying to pay attention for a CEL and noticed the tach drops about 500 RPM with every jerk. This is the first time we’ve noticed a drop in revs, but it may be the first time we’ve really tried to watch it. She said these jerks felt to be the same as before. No CEL came on though.
7. We swap cars and I take it to Aamco (WITHOUT shutting off the engine) and ask them to scan for any pre-codes. Nothing is in the computer.

They offered to keep the car and drive it periodically, but they don’t have the man power to put in a lot of driving time. And I unfortunately don’t have an extra car available to me. This is very frustrating. Aamco advised they will not charge me any additional diagnostic time, but can’t try to track it down until they have a code to follow.

Any new thoughts? I will go through and re-check spark plug wire connections. I’ll even try to re-connect the battery.

If it is the CPS, how would I test that?

Thanks for all the help so far!
Mike


Well Mike,
From what you are saying it sure does sound like the crank sensor. The Crank Sensor is the input for the tachometer. Im sure if the CEL was on on off there should be a code. You may have to get it back to a dealer an have them check for Precodes. I bet you find a P0355 code! It sure does sound like a Crank Sensor! Unfortunately the Crank Sensor is in with the Timing Belt on this one not real easy to fix :frusty:

[machav63]

Well Mike,
From what you are saying it sure does sound like the crank sensor. The Crank Sensor is the input for the tachometer. Im sure if the CEL was on on off there should be a code. You may have to get it back to a dealer an have them check for Precodes. I bet you find a P0355 code! It sure does sound like a Crank Sensor! Unfortunately the Crank Sensor is in with the Timing Belt on this one not real easy to fix :frusty:


EEERRRR!!!! I had the crank sensor replaced at the dealer about 18 months ago (I think). I would not be surprised if I was out of warranty for that repair.

[HyundaiWifey]

EEERRRR!!!! I had the crank sensor replaced at the dealer about 18 months ago (I think). I would not be surprised if I was out of warranty for that repair.

Mike,
You may also want to note that when taking your car to a repair shop verses a dealer such as the maker of that particular auto that they don't always have the most upgraded technology. I would definitely take this concern to a Hyundai Dealer. You may also ask if they have the "loaner" policy. What that does is allows the customer to take a vehicle in its place to drive until the car is repaired. I hope that this helps!

[machav63]

Mike,
You may also want to note that when taking your car to a repair shop verses a dealer such as the maker of that particular auto that they don't always have the most upgraded technology. I would definitely take this concern to a Hyundai Dealer. You may also ask if they have the "loaner" policy. What that does is allows the customer to take a vehicle in its place to drive until the car is repaired. I hope that this helps!

Point taken.

Unfortunately, I don't want to take my car to the local dealer. The service write is a complete JERK and was totally condescending to my wife! I was even upset that the repair shop had to buy parts from the dealer, but my hands were a bit tied.

The next nearest dealer is 30 miles in either direction.

[machav63]

Well Mike,
From what you are saying it sure does sound like the crank sensor. The Crank Sensor is the input for the tachometer. Im sure if the CEL was on on off there should be a code. You may have to get it back to a dealer an have them check for Precodes. I bet you find a P0355 code! It sure does sound like a Crank Sensor! Unfortunately the Crank Sensor is in with the Timing Belt on this one not real easy to fix :frusty:

I just confirmed with my wife that the CPS was replaced in 02/07 @ 77,000 miles.

Since this current problem probably started 10,000+ miles ago, the CPS was only good for about 40,000.

Do you think I can get the dealer to do anything about this?

mike

[Admin1]

I just confirmed with my wife that the CPS was replaced in 02/07 @ 77,000 miles.

Since this current problem probably started 10,000+ miles ago, the CPS was only good for about 40,000.

Do you think I can get the dealer to do anything about this?

mike


Well the parts war. is 12/12 that sucks! But the only thing you can do is contact the dealer that you had them do the spark plug/coil/gasket work done. I would tell them that you are very unhappy that they said they fixed the car an it was never fixed right!! If the service manager dont make things right, them him you want to talk to the Service Director..That is his boss! bottom dollar is you paid them to fix the concen an they never have! Your defitey in a tough spot :deadhorse:

[machav63]

:deadhorse: - Very appropriate in this situation.

The first parts store I visited last week mentioned a Crank Position Sensor, Crank Misfire Sensor, and a Camshaft Sensor. Do I need to worry about ALL 3 of these, or just the CPS?

[Admin1]

- Very appropriate in this situation.

The first parts store I visited last week mentioned a Crank Position Sensor, Crank Misfire Sensor, and a Camshaft Sensor. Do I need to worry about ALL 3 of these, or just the CPS?

Well The Cam sensor is not in the timing belt, Its on the right upper side of the head, an only seen a few of these go bad. I wouldnt worry about the Misfire Sensor either. cam sensor 90% of the time will cause car not to start or it will be a hard start, It only used to help PCM find TDC. Our good friend "myhyundaiforums " Has put together a prety good step by step Timing belt instructions. here is a link http://myhyundaiforums.com/showthread.php?t=93

[machav63]

Well The Cam sensor is not in the timing belt, Its on the right upper side of the head, an only seen a few of these go bad. I wouldnt worry about the Misfire Sensor either. cam sensor 90% of the time will cause car not to start or it will be a hard start, It only used to help PCM find TDC. Our good friend "myhyundaiforums " Has put together a prety good step by step Timing belt instructions. here is a link http://myhyundaiforums.com/showthread.php?t=93

Wow! The CPS is #19 in that list.

Is there any way to test it, or the connecting wires once it is out? Just curious

Thanks!

[Admin1]

Wow! The CPS is #19 in that list.

Is there any way to test it, or the connecting wires once it is out? Just curious

Thanks!


No unfortunately there is not, I think in the service manual there is a check but never really works, the known good check is in the PCM it will store a code P0355 most of the time! I know you said you had them allready put one on, there are lots of pintch points were the wire runs through the timing belt....if so....bad dealer!!

[machav63]

No unfortunately there is not, I think in the service manual there is a check but never really works, the known good check is in the PCM it will store a code P0355 most of the time! I know you said you had them allready put one on, there are lots of pintch points were the wire runs through the timing belt....if so....bad dealer!!

Sorry for all of the questions, but they keep coming to me.

Would the P0355 code only present itself when the car jerks? If so, would the code get reset when the engine is shut off?

I am only asking because I am thinking of bringing the car to the dealership this afternoon. If the car has not jerked yet today, I am worried that there will not be any codes present. This an intermittent problem, after all.

[Admin1]

Sorry for all of the questions, but they keep coming to me.

Would the P0355 code only present itself when the car jerks? If so, would the code get reset when the engine is shut off?

I am only asking because I am thinking of bringing the car to the dealership this afternoon. If the car has not jerked yet today, I am worried that there will not be any codes present. This an intermittent problem, after all.

No don't be sorry! Any question is good here! That's why we are here!

If the CEL ever comes on it should store a code in the PCM if the dealer knows what are doing they can also check for pending DTC.

[machav63]

No don't be sorry! Any question is good here! That's why we are here!

If the CEL ever comes on it should store a code in the PCM if the dealer knows what are doing they can also check for pending DTC.

I'm attempting this on my own (with the help of my GM mechanic friend)

Should the crank sensor plate (I think that is what it called) wiggle at all? It's the plate that passes by the crank sensor.

It is not totally lose, but it is definitely not tight against the crank. If I touch it, it wiggles a bit.

Just curious.

Thanks!

[Admin1]

I'm attempting this on my own (with the help of my GM mechanic friend)

Should the crank sensor plate (I think that is what it called) wiggle at all? It's the plate that passes by the crank sensor.

It is not totally lose, but it is definitely not tight against the crank. If I touch it, it wiggles a bit.

Just curious.

Thanks!

It slids on the crank with a key way that keeps in its place, when the crank bolt is tighten that will keep the plate(shutter plate) in place. Make sure you dont install it backwards! but yes some movement is normal. Also be sure to tuck the Crank Sensor wire in place so that it dont make contact with the timing belt!

[machav63]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

It was the Crank Sensor after all. My buddy and I replaced it last summer, and the car has worked fine since. I am keeping my fingers crossed though, since it is the second sensor we have had put on the car.

Thanks for all of the help!

Mike

[Admin1]

Thank you for replying back! An very glad you got it fixed!

[HyundaiWifey]

Thanks Mike for the follow up on the repair. We really value the members when they respond back with the solution and let us know that what we have done here has helped you for others in the future with the same situation.